Monday, January 29, 2007

A Matter of Perspective

This is war. If you play by the rules and lose, nobody is going to pin a sportsmanship mental on your uniform.

Instead, if they recover your body or find enough of your body parts, you'll get a nice little funeral with somebody playing taps.

Those who insist so loudly on following Geneva Conventions rules regarding captured terrorists need to take a long, hard look at the latest atrocity in Iraq, news of which broke last week.

Four U.S. soldiers, one of them a New Yorker, were captured - and promptly murdered - last Saturday in the Shiite holy city of Karbala, 50 miles from Baghdad, officials confirmed.

Two of the slain soldiers were found handcuffed together in the back of a vehicle.

Soldiers die in combat, of course.

But the murder of disarmed and helpless troops - killing POWs, in effect - is what's at issue here.

The killers traveled in vehicles used by U.S. government convoys, wore U.S. combat fatigues, had American weapons and spoke English. That got them past an army checkpoint and into a U.S. compound - where they opened fire with grenades and rifles.

Among those killed was Pfc. Shawn Falter, 25, of Homer in northern Westchester. Officials confirmed that he was killed last Saturday after being ambushed in Karbala, but didn't name the two victims of the atrocity.

The murder of helpless captives is a stark reminder of the barbaric nature of the enemy that American-led forces face in Iraq.

Indeed, it puts into perspective the complaints about U.S. "atrocities" committed against prisoners at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib.

Frankly, complaints about degrading photos and alleged desecration of the Koran can't hold a candle to the savage abduction and execution-style murders of brave soldiers.

Those who have led the outcry over what they hysterically decry as U.S. "war crimes" in Iraq have a particular obligation to speak out against genuine atrocities of the kind committed by these terrorist insurgents.

Their failure to do so will only serve to confirm their actual motive: not to hold America to the highest moral standard, but to undermine the U.S. effort and ensure a Vietnam-style defeat in Iraq.

37 Comments:

At 8:57 AM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

Don't strawman AC. We do not draw instruction on ethical conduct from al-Qaeda just as we should not draw it from crap like Colin Powell covering up My Lai.

On one hand you seem to see anything goes on in the next breath you'll be talking about bringing "freedom and democracy".

The Dear Leader's Most Excellent Iraqi Adventure will bring neither and we are culpable for the deaths of these kids (which they are in many cases) by continuing with the jingoistic crap.

 
At 9:08 AM, Blogger American Crusader said...

I want to hear the same outrage in the New York Times. I want to see the world condemn these tactics as they condemned abu grahib.
But what you hear is a whisper at best.
I guess the followers of Allah either get a free pass or our own media is undercutting the war effort.
It's time to start fighting without one arm being tied behind our backs.

 
At 9:37 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ahhhh... putting things into perspective…

Ducky said to AC,

“On one hand you seem to see anything goes on in the next breath you'll be talking about bringing "freedom and democracy".”

You have proved AC’s point Ducky because you are taking AC’s words out of context.

Show me one post where AC called for the killing of innocent civilians.

I actually disagree with his point that we dont give our troops enough authority to do their jobs.

He is complaining because our rules of engagement do not allow our soldiers to fire back when under enemy fire if they cannot pinpoint where the enemy is firing from. This strategy undoubtedly has led to the deaths of some of our troops. In combat it is vital to return suppression fire when under attack in order to keep the enemy from getting a bead on you. We have instituted this policy as a humanitarian effort to reduce civilian casualties.

Our Iraqi army allies are under no such obligation and are notorious for returning wildly inaccurate suppression fire.

When you take things out of context as often as you do Ducky you lose credibility. Your activism against the efforts to bring democracy to Iraq are questionable. Don’t give me your B.S. that Iraq was better off with no hope under the mass murdering Baathist regime. The only people that were better off were the Sunnis and the privileged ruling class in Baghdad.

 
At 10:24 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The media is to blame. They hype up the ante whenever it's a Muslim that gets killed, but whenever it's one of ours, it's barely even covered.

AC, you're right. I too want to see the outrage in the liberal rags, but you won't see it at all.

The ROE is in disarray and needs to be revamped so that we can kill all of those motherfucking ragheads that come against us. I long to see Muqtada al Sadr's body being dragged down the road and set on fire.

 
At 10:38 AM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

"whenever it's one of ours it's hardly even covered"?

Are you insane?

Yesterday's paper had two stories on American casualties above the fold and an editorial.

However, it's good to be reminded by a moral authority like Steve that we are there to "kill ragheads". He offers true hope that this will resolve itself anytime soon.

Luckily, as we can determine by the voice of the American people, he and his troglodyte knuckledragger friends among us are a distinct minority.

 
At 11:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The people that you call troglodyte knuckledraggers only want democracy for Iraq.

What the hell is so bad about that?

Why do you hate democracy and so desperately want the Iraqis to be left undefended against the Baathists and terrorists?

The answer is ominous. You will sell out anyone for your petty grudge against Bush. Meanwhile there are real fascists out there that need to be condemned and fought. Instead you piddle your time empowering terrorists.

When Americans formed the Abraham Lincoln Brigade and fought against the fascists in Spain, what happened when they came home? Hoover and the FBI harassed the hell out of them. Only a short time later we were at war with the Nazis and Mussolini's "Empire".

As blind as you are, we are all on the same side… Behind every one of our men and women in Iraq, fighting against the most immoral enemy of our generation.

That makes you the knuckledragger…

 
At 11:41 AM, Blogger American Crusader said...

"Yesterday's paper had two stories on American casualties above the fold and an editorial."

Of course they cover American soldiers who were killed...and then use this information to blast Bush and his policies. They don't cover these deaths because of the loss of American lives but because of politics and good print. I'm starting to think that many in the media are disappointed when there aren't enough American soldiers killed to make a good story.

 
At 11:44 AM, Blogger WomanHonorThyself said...

The murder of helpless captives is a stark reminder of the barbaric nature of the enemy that American-led forces face in Iraq.
...Not to Kerry , AC..he thinks the USA is the "pariah" of the world!..spit!..great post!

 
At 11:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ducky, I've never been called a troglodyte knuckledragger before, but that's one to remember.

It is human instinct to kill our enemies. Killing them is the right thing to do.

Does pandering the enemy suit more to your appeal?

Kill the enemy before he does. I cannot see anything more logical.

 
At 11:55 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm starting to think that many in the media are disappointed when there aren't enough American soldiers killed to make a good story.

Recall when we hit the 3k count, and the media went apeshit over it? That was a banner goal for the media. Talking about it sells more newspapers.

 
At 12:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did you all hears about dat duck dat wuz raised from da dead? Theys call it da Lazarus Duck.

Dis here hunter scored a shot wit a Hatsan Escort Guard 12 gauge semi automatic wit a black fiberglass-filled synthetic stock that gots nickel-plated swivel studs and molded-in checkering.

I tells ya there aint a woman alive dats got a body like dat!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes sir, thats a sight ta see!

Anyways dis here duck was shot and stored inna freezer fer two whole cottonpickin’ days. But it scared the bee-Jesus outta dat hunter’s wife (who gots a body more like a 22 caliber BB gun, if ya know what I means). Ya see she went in da freezer and I swear the varmit done popped up its head and took a good look at her (hez wasn’t dead no more).

So theys took da duck ta one of dem animal doctors (a real quack if ya ask me). Den the damn thing done died again on da operatin’ table! But they brang dat duck back ta life one more time!

We’s got da same thang right here. Da duck huntin’ is good on dis here blog. I done blasted da livin’ daylights outta dat Mr. Ducky, but he’s keeps coming back ta life. Its like dat turkey shoot they did back in W.W.2, but theys had aeroplanes. Nowadays dat ducky keepsa scootin' around wit a broken wing gettin all torn up. If ya ask me dis here is more like dat movie Pet Cemetary.

It just aint natural-like…

 
At 12:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ducky

Have you ever spoken to people who were at Mai Lai. Look at the holes in the statements of Airman Thompson more closely. You can drive a truck through his statements.

Moreover the men at Mai Lai were under fire. The story was repeated by Sy Hersch third hand. I had two coworkers who were there and tell a different story

1 They were under fire.
2 Thompson lied through his teeth.

Whatever happened Thompson was a first class BS artist. Read his statements for yourself and you tell me if it were plausible.

How many died at Hue?

 
At 1:06 PM, Blogger American Crusader said...

F*ing hilarious freedomnow.
What's most amazing is that it's true.
At least she found out before she started plucking its feathers.

 
At 1:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dang right its true. I done been pluckin’ aDucky's feathers like it wuz thanksgivin’ dinner for da Brady Bunch.

 
At 2:01 PM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

A matter of perspective, for class discussion:

Given the confusion and lack of hard details, the tactics are new and disturbing. Rumors in Karbala say this is an Iranian operation designed as payback for the arrest of its citizens. The lack of violence towards Iraqi military and police is an unusual part of this operation. The theory is that the Iranians needed hostages to negotiate the release of its operatives. An American raid on the Iranian embassy the day after the Karbala incident may also be part of the reason for the rumors. President's Bush's decision to allow the killing of Iranian agents in Iraq may also be linked to increased aggression by both sides.

 
At 2:02 PM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

.... how about it Freedomnow, anything to say or are you going to continue to blow smoke out your arse?

 
At 2:35 PM, Blogger American Crusader said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 2:42 PM, Blogger American Crusader said...

The US troops in Iraq attacked Iran's representative office in the northern Iraqi city of Arbil on Thursday morning.
Not exactly Iran's embassy but close enough.
The United States has been giving Iran a free pass for the most part until recently.
Bush cannot allow Iran to continue aiding operations that lead to the deaths of American soldiers.
Iran may be trying to increase its influence both militarily and economically but launching any military operations designed to capture Americans risks a major escalation that Iran would lose. Iran may like showing off its new military hardware but when it comes to fighting the US military its a lose/lose proposition.
Not only would they lose militarily but they would lose face with their Shi'ite brothers.
My guess is that I ran cuts back on its operations.

 
At 2:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I should have known the Geneva conventions was just a formality for you. You want America to be held up as a beacon of light while at the same time you torture prisoners who aren't even afforded the simplest basic rights. Most of these prisoners aren't even officially in the hands of Americans and the CIA. There is a cancer growing inside America and people like you only feed these cancerous cells.

 
At 3:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, so here we go with the "you're a cancer", and the "you don't care about Geneva" lines. Whenever a lefty with no salient argument wants to make himself feel like he's won an argument, he simply dusts that line off and inserts it.

But I will give him one thing... We haven't been strictly following Geneva, because if we had we would flat-out destroy mosques which are being used to attack troops, and could kill un-uniformed combatants in a battlefield without worry of capture.

The Geneva Convention was created, in part, to deter the kind of terrorist activities that we see being perpetrated so blatantly in the ME.

Why should we hold ourselves, in the interest of being "PC", to stricter guidelines than the GLORIOUS international community holds itself to?

 
At 4:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

President's Bush's decision to allow the killing of Iranian agents in Iraq may also be linked to increased aggression by both sides.

Are you against American agression toward the Iranians?

 
At 4:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Ducky,

I’m glad that you are not put off by my friendly banter.

First off, remember that you never replied to me the first time, so dont get too excited.

Secondly, lets get something straight. When a country trains/funds a militia like Sadr’s, that is known to intentionally commit massive amounts of human rights abuses against innocent Sunnis, as well as those Shiites that do not submit to their authority - you should be concerned about that country’s actions.

The Shiites were the natural allies of the US, but Iranian influence has challenged that. We had nothing to gain by fighting the Shia. This conflict was initiated by a power hungry religious fanatic who began this campaign by killing his own people. The first kill was a Shia cleric that supported the US. Then the Mahdi army attacked the country’s undisputed top Shiite cleric, al-Sistani, by surrounding his home and seizing several Shiite mosques by force.

Later on he attempted to seize the Shia cities of Najaf and Karbala. The whole time he was financed by Iran who viewed al-Sistani as a liability because he is not a militant. Al-Sistani may be a religious bigot, but he is a peaceful man and has preached heartily against violence.

In addition, for a long time Iran has been shipping weapons into Iraq and training proxies to use them, that is an act of war. If you want to talk about escalation then you should have spoke out over the years as US officials complained about Iran's continual escalations.

Iran is only interested in making Iraq a Shia theocracy. The US is interested in fair representation for all ethnic groups. There is a huge difference in priorities there. The US is willing to deal with groups that are anti-American as long as they are peaceful. Iran only wants complete subjugation.

…Diversity Project you are a lightweight. If you need a doctor or chemo treatments I will help start a charity drive for you. Otherwise, check back when you have something intelligent to say.

In Solidarity,

Freedom Now

 
At 5:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I only think we should target the terrorists rather than risk killing innocent civilians. Therefore, we must take every precaution to insure that only Sh'ite and Sunni moslems are killed by America's finest.

 
At 6:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

AC


When has your site attracted comedians. Peversity project is a cheap comedy act. Where is University President Rios Montt when we need him.

 
At 6:31 PM, Blogger Always On Watch Two said...

Crusader,
Well! This posting really riled up Duck.

 
At 7:11 PM, Blogger American Crusader said...

duckys comments are always welcome here.
I may not agree but at least he is consistent in his beliefs.
FYI...troglodyte knuckledraggers are almost 98% genetically identical to humans.
Most of Allah 's followers can only dream of being anywhere near that number.

 
At 7:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

One thing I have to say: although I might sound really pissed at Ducky, I too admire his firmness in his beliefs, but of course he has to remember OUR beliefs as well and we all should respect opinions no matter if we agree or disagree.

On a personal note to Ducky, I would hope that he shows up at our bloggers gathering in May. While we think of adversaries, think of them in a different way when we meet them in person.

 
At 7:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

THE FOLLOWING IS A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Warning: I'm building up a rant of epic proportions against the moslem filth for the terrorist bombing that killed three Jewish civilians in Eilat Israel today. I assure you that I will not be at all restrained in my rhetoric, so if you are easily offended by unrestrained, politically incorrect language towards the followers of mohammed you ought not view my website for the next...well, ever.

We will now return you to the regularly sheduled programming from The American Crusader.

 
At 7:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

i must have pist madze off...again...

perhaps i should quit sending him those articles...

it's tough being blog libraria...

 
At 4:38 AM, Blogger American Crusader said...

Thank you for the warning mz...but I'm looking forward towards your rant.
Muslim filth is a topic I hold dear.

 
At 12:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just read this comment thread. Now what were you saying, AC?

Just kidding. The murder of those men is inexcusable, and it proves what we've always been saying; the people we are fighting do not follow any rules or regulations other than one: "KILL!" That's all they are trained to do. They aren't hampered by having one hand tied behind their backs nor are they hampered with an MSM that constantly yammers about their "mission" not being worthwhile. They don't have "Mr. Duckys" over there, or - if they do - they don't have freedom of speech so he wouldn't be able to talk unless he were on their side. Everyone here in America is allowed to say just about anything they please, and the ones who disagree with the war effort and protecting this country talk louder and longer than anyone else. Well, "louder" anyway, perhaps not "longer." Some of us do ramble on... sorry!

 
At 2:20 PM, Blogger David Schantz said...

I agree with AC, I too,"want to hear the same outrage in the New York Times." If we took the war to the terrorist on their own terms, capture and kill the war might end soon, but then we'd be no better than the enemy.

God Bless America, God Save The Republic.

 
At 2:29 PM, Blogger Always On Watch Two said...

I didn't mean to imply that Duck's comments are not welcome nor did I intend to ridicule him (I'm not sure that I can say the latter about his interactions with me--although lately is better).

To the contrary! I enjoy the interaction--most of the time, anyway.

I wonder if he'll come to the bloggers' gathering.

 
At 4:59 AM, Blogger The Merry Widow said...

Fern-My uncle tried to join the Lincoln Brigade, they were screeching, screaming RED COMMUNISTS! My grandparents did what few parents have the stomach to do, and that was pull his immature fanny out of college and made him go to work in the real world! He grew up after that!
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!

tmw

 
At 8:28 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes TMW it was the Red Brigade.

However, they were fighting our enemies, the Nazis and the Italian Blackshirts.

Stalin shrewdly saw our lack of commitment to democracy and changed course to ally himself to the Nazis.

The legally elected government of Spain was under an attack by a military coup that had turned into a full scale civil war. The League of Nations and the US declared an arms blockade on both sides, but the Nazis and Italians not only sent arms to the rebels, but sent troops. The West had the same fear of escalating tensions against enemies that were under no such restraint.

Not long before Hitler had just crossed the demilitarized zone on the other side of the Rhine and illegally rearmed Germany. He was spirally out of control as the Western world became more desperate to avoid a conflict. Their appeasement encouraged Hitler to accelerate his aggression.

There are many lessons to be learned from these events.

 
At 8:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I meant to say,

The West had the same fear that we have today of escalating tensions against enemies that were under no such restraint.

 
At 9:43 AM, Blogger American Crusader said...

AOW...I know that. Ducky is a regular contributor at your site.
I appreciate someone who stands their ground...even if it is built on a sandy foundation.

 

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